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The Right Person for the Job

[haiku url=”https://www.btbpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/The-Right-Person-for-the-Job.mp3″]

As a university teacher, I often hear students say that they are worried because they don’t know what they want to do in the future. I usually tell them two things: firstly, no one really knows what they want to do for the rest of their lives when they are in university, and those who think they do are often wrong. (I should know – I was one of them!)

The second thing is that there is really no point in worrying about what job they want to do because most people in Japan are never really given a choice. If you want to do a specific job like teaching, nursing, or driving a truck, it is possible for you to choose what you do, but most people just end up working for big companies where they are not given any choice at all.

I started thinking about this topic last week when I read an article on Japan Today that said high numbers of new employees are quitting Japanese companies soon after they start work. Some of these people were interviewed for the article, and one of the reasons they gave was that the companies made them do really low-level basic tasks even though they were highly qualified. On this point, I am on the side of the companies. I think it is very important that future managers and directors understand how the company works from the bottom up.

The other reason mentioned related to the fact that they had no choice in their career paths. One person said something like, “I am interested in marketing. I studied it in university, and I have always wanted to learn more about it and make it my profession, so I joined a marketing company. I told them at the interview what I wanted to do, and then when I joined, I found that I had been put in the accounts department.” This person was a graduate from a famous university, so he just quit. I admire his guts.

Japanese companies seem to have the idea that any person can do any job. They do not appear to make any attempt to match employees’ skills or interests to particular departments within the company, and they just move people around randomly with the tenkin system. I think there are two problems with this approach. Firstly, it is bad for the companies because they are not maximising the potential of their workers. Secondly, it is bad for the workers, because they are forced to spend years doing jobs in which they have no interest.

In Western countries, university graduates apply not to companies, but to specific departments of companies. For example, if someone is interested in marketing, they will apply to the marketing departments of several big companies. Even though they may change companies at some point in their career, they will probably not change the job that they do. That is why Western people say things like, “I’m in marketing” rather than saying what type of company they work for. It is also why “I am a salaryman” makes no sense in English as an answer to the question “What do you do?”

Anyway, I would like to know what all of you think about this. Have you had experience of it yourselves? Do you think Japanese companies are maximising the potential of their employees? If you have time, please read the JT article and share your opinions. You will see from the number of comments that it is something of a “hot topic” for foreigners living in Japan.

Look forward to hearing your thoughts.

P.S. This has nothing to do with the topic, but I have noticed an interesting word appearing in the British media recently. One problem with talking about sport has always been that we don’t know what to call people who do judo. They are not really “players,” so how should we refer to them? What I have noticed this year is that lots of the newspapers have started using the word “judoka” to fill that gap, so please feel free to use it when you speak English.

40 Comments

  1. YU on 2012年08月06日 at 15:33

    Hi David,

    I have a feeling that we call people who do “something 道” “~家(か)” in Japanese language, such as 剣道家、書道家、華道家…
    Anyway, it’s interesting to know that the word “judoka” is used in the British media just as it is in Japanese language.
    Judo is a Japanese martial art, and all the judo techniques are called in Japanese – “ippon”, “yuko”, “wazaari”, etc…
    However, the point systems have been completely westernized recently, and it doesn’t look “judo” any more to me. 🙁



  2. David Barker on 2012年08月06日 at 15:43

    Hi Tomo,

    I just realized that I forgot to answer your question from the last entry. Yes, the Olympics can be singular or plural, so “the Olympics is” and “the Olympics are” are both fine. You can also use both ways to talk about one particular Olympics, so “the London Olympics is…” or “the London Olympics are….” I wouldn’t think too deeply about this – it’s just the way we say it.

    Hope that helps.



  3. YU on 2012年08月06日 at 17:40

    Hi David and everyone,

    One Japan Today’s commentator says like this :

    “With the shrinking population, we’re going to see more employees being choosy about where they work – and I think that’s a good thing.”

    That might be a good thing, but I’m skeptical about the idea that the number of job offers will remain the same in the future as it is today…inspite of the shrinking population…

    >“So to them, the most important things in life are their own interests and circles, and work is secondary.”
    >This is what wrong with Japan, the line above is correct, WORK IS SECONDARY, Japan needs to foster that.

    That might be true, but I think Japan became an economic power after being defeated in war as WORK WAS PRIMARY for Japanese people.
    I personally think that our own interests, circles and work are all important. None of them is primary or secondary.

    > In Western countries, university graduates apply not to companies, but to specific departments of companies. For example, if someone is interested in marketing, they will apply to the marketing departments of several big companies.

    It means, university graduates in Western countries choose “jobs” and ones in Japan choose “companies”.
    So, in Western countries, you’ll be assigned the job you wanted in any case? That’s nice.

    > They do not appear to make any attempt to match employees’ skills or interests to particular departments within the company,

    Generally speaking, 理系 students have more opportunities to get specific “jobs” that match their skills or interests than 文系 students. It is also said that 理系 graduates get paid much better.

    > Firstly, it is bad for the companies because they are not maximising the potential of their workers. Secondly, it is bad for the workers, because they are forced to spend years doing jobs in which they have no interest.

    I think that one of the biggest differences between the university graduates in Western countries and in Japan is the level of their special knowledges. In Japanese 4 year universities, students just learn something like ”高校の勉強の延長”(It was called ぱんきょう= 一般教養) first two years. I was very surprised that I had to get credits in 保健体育 or second foreign language to graduate the university, which has nothing to do with my major(economics)!!
    And only last two years you study something specialized in the field. However, the last year you are very busy with your job hunting… So, I’m very sorry for my parents that I learned very little at my university, though they spent a lot!

    Anyway, I can’t believe that “usual” Japanese university graduates can do the specific jobs just after graduating.

    > Do you think Japanese companies are maximising the potential of their employees?

    My older brother has been working for the same company since he graduated. He is 43. He worked at several departments so far and has been transfered to the US.
    His company doesn’t allow employees to stay the same department and do only the same job more than for a fixed period of time. Apparently, that is his company’s ways of manpower training. I guess many companies in Japan have a similar policy as my brother’s company.
    I also hear that in Japan, people who have worked at several departments(but not too many!) in the same company are favored the most when you change the job.
    I wonder if Japanese companies prefer “all-round players”(flexible employees) to “specialists”…



  4. taco on 2012年08月06日 at 19:41

    Hello David,

    Thank you for your answer about “the Olympics.” I will say both “the Olympics is…” and “the Olympics are…” confidently from today.

    Hi Tomo,

    Thank you for picking my question up. I (we) got the answer!

    Hi Anne,

    Thank you for your comment on the last entry. As you said, it depends on what (Olympics) you are talking about. I’ve become smarter again!

    Hi Fumie,

    Thank you for your comment. I think “event” includes some other things like an opening or closing ceremony. Anyway, this time I enjoyed picking various words about the Olympics from your comments.

    See you,

    taco



  5. Tomo on 2012年08月06日 at 22:30

    Hi David,

    >I wouldn’t think too deeply about this – it’s just the way we say it.

    OK, I got it. Thank you! 🙂

    I just reread the comments on the last entry and realized that Anne’s question has not been solved yet, so could you help us again, please?

    Here’s her question.

    >I noticed I had made a mistake of your name.
    I noticed that I spelled (AE) / spelt (BE) your name wrongly.

    I tried to think alternatives. Do these ones below make sense?

    1. I noticed I misspelled your name wrongly(or incorrectly).
    2. I noticed I made a mistake in spelling your name.
    3. I noticed I made a mistake with your name.

    Amo commented on No. 1 as below;

    >1. I noticed I misspelled your name wrongly(or incorrectly).

    I think that “misspell” implies “wrongly” so you don’t need to add wrongly in your sentence.

    I agree with Amo’s idea, and if No. 1 was just “I noticed I misspelled your name”, I guess all of the sentences would be okay.

    Hi Taco,

    I also learned a new thing, so thank YOU!

    I’ll write about the topic later.

    See you soon,

    Tomo



  6. David on 2012年08月06日 at 23:44

    Hi Tomo,

    Thanks for reminding me. Here is my feedback:

    1. I noticed I misspelled your name wrongly(or incorrectly).
    (Incorrect, but okay if you change “misspelled” to “spelled.” “Misspell” means “spell wrongly,” so you cannot “misspell something wrongly.” )
    2. I noticed I made a mistake in spelling your name.
    (A bit unnatural. The closest would be “with the spelling of your name.”)
    3. I noticed I made a mistake with your name.
    (Not wrong, but not very natural.)



  7. Fumie on 2012年08月07日 at 05:52

    Hi David,

    I read somewhere the difference of job situations between the West and Japan. And I think Westen one is better. Because assigning people with special skill in that particular department would be more productive than assiggning anyone without those skill. Of course, Western way is also good for people because they can use their skills and they would be feel more confidence with the job that is their special field. Besides if people were forced to work in departments which they had not studied at university, what they had learned at there would be no use.

    >Have you had experience of it yourselves?
    Yes, kind of. After I graduated from a junior college of English, I really wanted to get a job which requires English skill. But the employment situation was bad, I ended up work in a small trading firm. I was assigned in an accounting department, although I want to work in a foreign department. I felt the job boring. I was very aspiring so I was discouraged by that assignment (I shouldn’t complain about this because my English ability was very poor)英語力もないのに英語の仕事がしたいという意欲だけはあり、仕事で英語が必要になれば英語力もついてくると思ってました.甘いですね。

    >Do you think Japanese companies are maximising the potential of their employees?
    No, I don’t think so.

    Hi YU,

    >I think that one of the biggest differences between the university graduates in Western countries and in Japan is the level of their special knowledges. In Japanese 4 year universities, students just learn something like ”高校の勉強の延長”(It was called ぱんきょう= 一般教養) first two years.

    I don’t think university students should study liberal arts anymore. They should study special skills from when they are freshman.

    We are going to a 1-day trip to the beach. Hope to see some seaslugs うみうし。

    Fumie



  8. Tomo on 2012年08月07日 at 07:58

    Hi David,

    Thank you! That’s a big help. Before I asked you, I googled those examples and found quite a few people use them, but I was not sure if they sound natural or not. This is something we cannot find in dictionaries or by Google search, so we need a teacher – you!
    Anyway, thanks again for your help 🙂

    Hi Fumie,

    Have a great time with your family!

    Tomo



  9. YU on 2012年08月07日 at 10:16

    Hi Fumie and everyone,

    When I applied for admission to the German university, I found out that Japanese 短大 graduates are considered to be high scchool graduates in Germany. If Japanese 短大 graduates want to enter a German university, they first have to go to a German college and study for two years there. I found it very strange. I wondered how much smarter German high school students were…日本の教育はレベルが低いってことなのかな!?

    In Germany, most of high school graduates can enter a university without the entrance exams, but I hear that the graduate rate is very low(only 10-20%). On the average, it takes for 6-7 years to graduate ; meanwhile, male students have to serve in the army. From the first semster you study about your majoring subject. (BTW, I didn’t need to take “保健体育”, of course!!)

    University graduates are kind of “elites” in German society, so they are choosy about where they work.
    I have a feeling that the position of university graduates in Japanese society is not as high as one in the West. Is it because almost anyone can graduate universities in Japan only if you could pass the difficult entrance exams!? And that is why Japanese companies choose students by the brand rankings of universities??(as anyway, in general, Japanese university students don’t really study hard after entering the university…)



  10. Tomo on 2012年08月07日 at 14:30

    Hi David and everyone,

    I read the article on Japan Today and comments there. Apparently, some people think Mr. A and Mr. B made the right choice, but it seems to me that they are just immature and impatient. I agree with David that it is very important that future managers and directors understand how the company works from the bottom up. A commenter said, “If you do not understand how the business works at the bottom end, how on earth can you manage it from the top?”, and I totally agree with this. Just because you are a graduate from a famous university, it doesn’t mean you are capable, competent, or good for the company. I think Mr. A and Mr. B should have tried to prove themselves first. “I’m a graduate of the University of Tokyo, and they hired me to count banknotes?” …I don’t want to work with a person like this. I have a feeling that those who have just been studying for exams don’t really know other important things like relationships. And Mr. C doesn’t seem to be ready to start his carrier, and Mr. E should “graduate” from his parents first.

    >Have you had experience of it yourselves?

    No. As you know I started working in a bank after I finished high school. I didn’t know what I wanted to do at that time. I just didn’t want to study anymore. Anyway, the bank moved their employees around randomly with the tenkin system, but usually, people who had been working in the deposit section for years were not assigned to the lending section, and vice versa. Having said that, 係替え could happen, and we were not given a choice.

    >Do you think Japanese companies are maximising the potential of their employees?

    Hmmm, I don’t think so. I think Japanese companies making their employees good for themselves, or I should say “convenient” for the company…

    See you soon,

    Tomo



  11. Anne on 2012年08月07日 at 14:50

    Hi David,

    Thank you for your advice. I got it.

    Hi Tomo,

    Thanks.

    Anne



  12. Yukako on 2012年08月07日 at 16:14

    Hi David and everyone,

    I wrote my comment after a long separation. I had been busy last month, so I couldn’t make time to write comments. Sorry!

    Anyway, I read the article on Japan Today. As Tomo mentioned above, I think Mr.A and Mr.B should have been patient. Basic tasks are very important for new employees, so most companies give them induction(新人研修). They have learned a lot of things from their superiors for a short period and will be full-fledged. I don’t think Mr.A and Mr.B will get along in their new job unless they change their thought about work.

    See you!

    Yukako



  13. YU on 2012年08月07日 at 16:35

    Hi Tomo,

    > I have a feeling that those who have just been studying for exams don’t really know other important things like relationships.

    I agree with you, of course not all ガリ勉君 are like that, though.
    As I mentioned before, my former boss graduated from Tokyo university. Certainly, he was very very smart, spoke English fluently, worked hard, but he lacked human feelings. So he was not popular in the company at all. My old colleague told me, “If he(my boss) were not that unsociable, he could even become one of the executives of this company…”. I thought so too.

    > I think Mr. A and Mr. B should have tried to prove themselves first. “I’m a graduate of the University of Tokyo, and they hired me to count banknotes?” …I don’t want to work with a person like this

    I totally agree with you.
    It is always the people with the least ability who like to boast. I suspect a person like him miscounts banknotes unexpectedly… 😉
    And as someone mentioned, the job(counting banknotes) would not be his lifejob, it is just the first step of his long career in the bank.
    I know Westerner like people like him, but as you say, it seems to me that he is just immature and impatient as well.

    > I think Japanese companies making their employees good for themselves, or I should say “convenient” for the company…

    I think so too, but learning many things(=experiencing many jobs) finally enrich you.
    I don’t say it’s a good thing, but Japanese companies tend to avoid hiring those who says “I want to do this job, but I don’t want to do that one”. Is it because they still expect employees to work until they reach retirement age!?
    日本の企業ってほんの一握りのスペシャリストとその他大勢のオールラウンダーが欲しいのかな?



  14. rinko on 2012年08月07日 at 18:31

    Hi David and everyone.

    >firstly, no one really knows what they want to do for the rest of their lives when they are in university, and those who think they do are often wrong.

    I think so,too.Some of my friends had found what they are really interested in while working and decided to quit the companies. Also one of them entered a university again and studied to get a skill for a new job.
    As for me,never having a dream for future nor knowing what I wanted to do, I changed my job two times and now I don’t work after giving birth to my son. So I really admire the people who find what they want to do and try to achieve it whatever their age.

    >In Western countries, university graduates apply not to companies, but to specific departments of companies.

    I think,in other countries, there are much more people who try to learn and experience only one specific job in their career than in Japan. When I went to English conversation school,my teacher who were from Australia told me that it’s strange that people could get less income than before after changing the job in spite of their experiences. I understood what he meant but,as you know, in many cases people don’t choose the same job as before in Japan. It means that many of them(including me)have to work as a new employee every time they change the companies.

    >They do not appear to make any attempt to match employees’ skills or interests to particular departments within the company,

    Very true. I sometimes hear even people who have special skills and jobs,like announcers, newscasters, journalists..could be transferred to completely diffirent departments.

    >Do you think Japanese companies are maximising the potential of their employees?

    Depends on the company…but I don’t think they are as far as I know.

    Hi YU

    >In Japanese 4 year universities, students just learn something like ”高校の勉強の延長

    I think so,too! I was very confused when I had to take a class of physics for “一般教養”while majoring in law at university. It was incredibly tough for me because I had never studied it even at high school!

    Have a great day everyone.

    rinko



  15. David Barker on 2012年08月07日 at 23:47

    Hi everyone,

    I am just learning how to attach audio files to the blog. I think my first attempt has worked. Please let me know if you can hear it.



  16. taco on 2012年08月07日 at 23:55

    スマホでも聴けた!!



  17. amo on 2012年08月08日 at 00:57

    Hi David and everyone,

    I don’t know why but I couldn’t access here last night so I wasn’t able to post a comment 🙁
    Anyway here is my comment.

    Hi David,

    >What I have noticed this year is that lots of the newspapers have started using the word “judoka”
    Funny that you should mentioned this, because when I read a article on BBC website last weekend, I noticed the word “judoka” and I thought it was interesting.

    I will post a comment on this week topic later, because it’s a bit difficult to me:(

    Hi Anne,

    >what kinds of antiques did you buy?
    I bought two rings, two necklaces, a pair of earrings and watch. My sister bought a necklace, a pair of earrings and two lithographs. This time, we were fascinated by art nouveau.

    Good night and sleep tight,
    amo



  18. YU on 2012年08月08日 at 09:09

    Hi David,

    I could hear your audio file.

    By the way, this has nothing to do with the topic, but may I ask you a question?

    In your book A to Z, you mention “やっぱり”.
    Yesterday I listned to English songs for kids with my son and wondered how I could translate the following lyrics. (It’s a part of the song, called “It’s a small world”.)

    It’s a world of laughter,
    a world of tears
    It’s a world of hopes,
    and a world of fears
    There’s so much that we share
    That it’s time we’re aware
    It’s a small world after all

    It’s a small world after all
    It’s a small world after all
    It’s a small world after all
    It’s a small, small world

    The expression, “It’s a small world!!” in English conversation means “世間は狭いね~!” and I think it has a nuance of “やっぱり”(世間は狭いね).
    So I thought “after all” in this lyrics could be translated as “やっぱり” as well, what do you think?
    Unfortunately, Japanese lyrics of this song just says “小さな世界”, and translates nothing about “after all”. Or should it be translated as “結局” or something else??



  19. YU on 2012年08月08日 at 10:00

    Hi yukako,

    > Basic tasks are very important for new employees, so most companies give them induction(新人研修). They have learned a lot of things from their superiors for a short period and will be full-fledged.

    I don’t think Western companies understand why they need to teach everything from the beginning to “university graduates”, as they expect them to have basic knowledges about the job already when they enter the company.

    Hi rinko,

    > Australia told me that it’s strange that people could get less income than before after changing the job in spite of their experiences.

    In my opinion, “job-hopping(転職)” in Western countries just means “to change the company you work for” and it is not usually considered in negative image. On the contrary, you can even improve your career through that.
    However, in Japan job-change affects career success in a negative manner, and you’ll often end up receiving the worse working conditions(incl. payment) at the next company.
    I guess it has someting to do with “lifetime employment” in Japan.



  20. Tomo on 2012年08月08日 at 10:51

    Hi David,

    Wow, audio file! It’s been a while since we heard you read the blog last time, hasn’t it? I used to listen to your English every day, and it was good listening practice for me, so I hope you will carry on with this 🙂

    Hi YU,

    >I don’t say it’s a good thing, but Japanese companies tend to avoid hiring those who says “I want to do this job, but I don’t want to do that one”.

    I agree. Japanese people tend to be too patient, so I think we need to learn standing up for ourselves, but sometimes it’s very difficult to draw a line between “standing up for yourself” and “being selfish.”

    >Is it because they still expect employees to work until they reach retirement age!?

    Maybe it is, and maybe it’s also because Japanese people don’t change jobs(companies) as often as Westerners. I’ve heard it’s changing, but we tend to think of people who often change jobs as 長続きしない人, right?

    >日本の企業ってほんの一握りのスペシャリストとその他大勢のオールラウンダーが欲しいのかな?

    どうなんでしょうね~ スペシャリストも必要だけど、オールラウンダーが重宝されるのも確かですよね。 大学で勉強したこととは全く関係ない会社に就職するケースの方が多いみたいだし、欧米人のように自分を何かの「専門家」と考えるのはなかなか難しいのかもしれないですね。 この辺りから前にDavidが言っていた、「働いてあげている」と「働かせてもらっている」の違いが生まれるんでしょうかね~

    See you soon,

    Tomo



  21. YU on 2012年08月08日 at 10:51

    Hi David,

    Do companies in the UK also hire full-time employees through “vitamin B” !?

    My older brother is a manager. In his department there’s a woman who got her job through strong personal connections. She graduated a good university, but she can not do her work properly. She is over 30.
    My brother has to have interviews with his subordinates regularly, and every time when he talks with her, she cries and begs him not to transfer her to other department as she can’t do other job either. He thinks she is right.
    However, she always makes so many incredibly stupid mistakes that he actually wants to turn her out.

    I think this is a bad example of “lifetime employment” and “縁故採用” in Japan. I wonder if this kind of matters could happen in Western countries too.



  22. Tomo on 2012年08月08日 at 10:58

    【correction】

    Maybe it is, and maybe it’s also because Japanese people… → Maybe it is. As you know, Japanese people…



  23. David Barker on 2012年08月08日 at 11:07

    Hi YU,

    I agree. I think やっぱり is a better translation than 結局 in this case.



  24. YU on 2012年08月08日 at 11:56

    Hi everyone,

    As for Japanese unversity students’ job hunting, receiving an unofficial job offer(内定) does not necessarily mean that you’ll be assigned the job you told the company you wanted to do at the job interviews.
    Some companies even ask students, “What would you do, if you were assigned the job you don’t want finally?”.
    Most students just answer, “I’ll do the job and try my best.” to get a 内定. That is a very vicious question!

    In Western countries, university graduates apply not to companies, but to specific departments of companies, so that companies and new employees seldom disagree on the job contents later!?

    Hi Tomo,

    > I agree. Japanese people tend to be too patient, so I think we need to learn standing up for ourselves, but sometimes it’s very difficult to draw a line between “standing up for yourself” and “being selfish.

    I agree.
    I hear that it occurs almost every day someone says in Westen companies, “I can not do this job, because it isn’t on my working contract.”
    In Japan, people like above will be named the first on the next company’s planned rsetructuring list…



  25. Miho on 2012年08月08日 at 21:13

    Hi, Mr.Barker and everyone.
    Can I join you? (Is there any qualification to post a comment here?)

    I read the article on Japan Today.
    As for Mr.A and Mr.B, I think there is nothing wrong with what the companies did to them.
    I have a friend who carried out a study on fluid physics in the university and got a job at the famous toilet company.
    He expected to be assigned a job at the R&D department but he was sent to the sales department. And that was because his boss wanted him to know what customers want which is the most important thing to develop a product.

    I believe that working in the specific depratment is good, but would it lead employers to a narrow view of things?

    As for Mr.C, it’s unbelievable.
    As for Mr.E, it’s ridiculous.
    And where did Mr.D go?

    By the way, my friend I mentioned earlier, he’s now in the R&D department after spending a year at the sales department.



  26. Miho on 2012年08月08日 at 21:16

    >I believe that working in the specific depratment is good, but would it lead employers to a narrow view of things?

    I meant employees. Sorry.



  27. David Barker on 2012年08月08日 at 23:04

    Hi Miho,

    Welcome to the blog. Everyone is welcome to write comments here.

    Hi everyone,

    I’m leaving for the UK tomorrow morning. I’ll be there on Friday morning Japanese time, so my feedback entry might be a bit late.

    I’m looking forward to escaping from this heat!!



  28. Fumie on 2012年08月09日 at 06:51

    Hi YU,

    Thank you for telling us about the situation of German universities. So university graduates are kind of elites in German society because the graduate rate is very low and it’s takes for 6-7
    years to graduate. Hmm, the things are very different there.

    Hi Miho,

    Nice to have you with us!

    Hi David,

    Thank you for the audio file. It’s a good listening practice for us to hear your reading blogs.
    Have a safe journey! And looking forward to hearing some stories while you are in the UK.
    Are you gonna meet Kattie and her husband?

    Fumie



  29. Tomo on 2012年08月09日 at 08:37

    Hi Miho,

    Welcome to the blog! Look forward to reading your comments 🙂

    Hi David,

    Have a great time with your family and enjoy the cool weather!

    Tomo



  30. YU on 2012年08月09日 at 09:35

    Hi Miho,

    Nice to have you with us!

    Hi David,

    Thank you for answering my question about やっぱり.
    However, I think there must be a better translation than “やっぱり” in that case, but I can’t think of any yet…

    Anyway, I wish you a safe journey.
    Have a great time with your family !!



  31. Yukako on 2012年08月09日 at 18:21

    Hi David,

    I can hear the audio file! I think it’s very effective in practicing listening English. Thank you, and have a nice trip!

    Hi Miho,

    Nice to have you with us!

    Hi YU,

    >I don’t think Western companies understand why they need to teach everything from the beginning to “university graduates”, as they expect them to have basic knowledges about the job already when they enter the company.

    I see. The university graduates should know the basic knowledge about the job they want to take, but I think there is a great distance between knowledge and practice. やっぱり、I think it’s very important for the university graduates to learn the besic skills about the job after they enter the company. I’m sorry to have difficulty expressing my thoughts in English… Anyway, it’s very difficult problem!



  32. YU on 2012年08月09日 at 19:27

    Hi Yukako,

    > but I think there is a great distance between knowledge and practice. やっぱり、I think it’s very important for the university graduates to learn the besic skills about the job after they enter the company.

    I totally agree with you!
    I didn’t say it wasn’t important for them.

    I think it is finally the matter of what companies expect from university graduates.

    According to David’s description, it doesn’t seem that Western companies want them to do any job within the company, but Japanese companies have different ideas on that, at least for some years after they enter the company.

    As I mentioned, I think it has somethig to do with “life employment system”.

    Western companies might think that most new employees will probably change companies at some point in their career, and it is a waste of time and money to train new employees this and that.
    I might be wrong, though…
    People say that it costs a lot to train new employees, and so Japanese companies want them to stay and work for the company at least for three years.

    > I’m sorry to have difficulty expressing my thoughts in English…

    I understand what you try to say very well.
    Don’t worry! 🙂



  33. Anne on 2012年08月09日 at 21:29

    Hi David and everyone,

    I’m not familiar with the system or the situation in Western countries, so I’m not sure which one is maximizing the potential of their workers.
    While reading the entry and member’s comments, one question occurred to me:
    It’s OK for students who major in economics, business, and some other business-related courses to find jobs, but I wonder what kinds of specific jobs students in Western countries, who major in literature, psychology, history or some other courses , do. In Japan, those students belong to”文系” and work for some companies. I don’t think there are a lot of options for those students if they want to use their skills.

    >On this point, I am on the side of the companies.
    —I totally agree with you.

    I read the article and found many of them interesting.
    Here are some of them I agree with:

    >Funny l thought it was very accurate. These examples are very accurate in my particular field where young start out of uni guys come into the workplace thinking they know everything about everything because they have read it in a text book or because their lecturer had told them. The fact is nothing (and l mean nothing) makes up for a mix of experience and education.

    >Whilst I agree that these new grads were not used to their full potential, people have to face the harsh realities. The economy in Japan and world wide is not in great shape – secondly, people need to learn actual work to understand an organization. I bet dollars to donuts that the employees were not going to be doing their respective tasks for the rest of their lives at the company. It is a type of training.

    In the article, as for the case Mr.A or B, they look so immature. Even a president at the bank starts from basic and boring repetitive tasks like counting banknotes! I don’t think they are able to expect to build up more brilliant career in the future.

    As for the case Mr.C, hmmm… I have mixed feelings. It would be happy if he/she can afford to live his/her interests and circles, but I guess there are times at some point in his/her life when he/she has to venture into a new world putting aside his/her own interests. No one knows if his /her decision was right or not until he/she retires,right?

    My working career is quite short and limited, so there’s nothing to say, but anyway, my start was counting banknotes and other low-level tasks:)

    I know many of my son’s co-workers, who entered the company at the same year(同期), quit the job.

    I know my son’s friend from junior high school reentered the school for aviation after having finished the graduate school.

    I know my son’s friend who is in computer programming.

    I know my friend’s son decided to study three more years after having finished (finishing?) two years in graduate school because he and his parents thought that a company he was accepted into didn’t deserve him.

    I hear surprising stories from a friend of mine who works at some company and train newly-hired employees.

    There are many cases, and some of the excellent people will move from one company to another asking for the chance of job hopping, but the number of those people is limited.
    Who knows his/her decision was right in his career?
    Of course, there might be times that you need to make decision at some points. But it’s difficult to quit the job in a situation where the economy is stagnant,isn’t it?

    Hi amo,
    Good for both of you!
    > we were fascinated by art nouveau—I love it too!

    Hi taco,
    You are welcome. It’s very complicated,isn’t it?

    Hi YU,
    Thanks for letting us know the system and situation in Germany.

    Hi Miho,
    Nice to have you with us.

    PS,
    I liked the audio flies, too. It took me several times to read out loud following your speed, but it was a good exercise.(I don’t mean “shadowing”!)

    Have a safe trip and have a relaxing time with your family and friends.

    Anne



  34. Yukako on 2012年08月09日 at 22:27

    Hi YU,

    Oh! I’m sorry to misunderstand yours.

    >I think it is finally the matter of what companies expect from university graduates.

    I think so, too! There is a great difference of employment system between Japan and Western countries. The difference influences the thoughts of new employees’ training.
    I can deepen my thoughts because of your kind explanation.
    Thank you!



  35. Yukako on 2012年08月09日 at 22:54

    Hi Anne,

    >In Japan, those students belong to”文系” and work for some companies. I don’t think there are a lot of options for those students if they want to use their skills.

    I have a friend belonged to 文学部. From this April, she works as a sales staff in care goods store(介護用品店). She often says to me, ” Everything is new for me, and I don’t know how to use my knowledge that I had learned in university.”
    I hear that few students belonged to 文学部 get jobs with publishers. Most of them get jobs that have nothing to do with their learning.

    Western countriesでも状況は似ているんでしょうか?私も気になります!



  36. amo on 2012年08月10日 at 00:26

    Hi David and everyone,

    How are you doing? I remember that I said the last summer got to me, but I have to admit that this summer is getting much worse to me. It’s really hard to sleep at night, so I feel sluggish from lack of sleep these days 🙁
    Going back to UK? Good for you;) Wish I could go with you. I really want to go somewhere cool.

    Anyway, I had a look at the article that you mentioned, and read some comments on it. I was a bit of surprised to learn their(Mr. A and B) reaction, because I thought that their situations were acceptable. I mean new employees’ first assignments are typically low level in Japan, so this is nothing new. So I think they should’ve known the situations before they start working. That’s why I can’t quite get over the fact that those two men didn’t take kindly to the typical corporate approach of making young staff members start their careers at low-level apprenticeships.

    >Have you had experience of it yourselves?

    No. When I was in high school, I was good at bookkeeping, so I just simply thought I would be going to be an accountant. I applied some companies but a specific position, after finishing high school. I had lost the interest in accounting so I changed job though.

    >Do you think Japanese companies are maximising the potential of their employees?

    It’s a hard question, but I want to believe there are some.

    Oh, I should go to bed. Good night sleep tight:)
    amo



  37. Anne on 2012年08月10日 at 05:44

    Hi David,
    >I liked the audio flies, too. It took me several times to read out loud following your speed, but it was a good exercise.(I don’t mean “shadowing”!)

    Have a safe trip and have a relaxing time with your family and friends
    —Of course, this is a message to you,David.
    As amo said,enjoy the cool weather!

    Hi Yukako,
    >Most of them get jobs that have nothing to do with their learning.
    —This is often the case. I’m wondering what is the meaning studying in college? Is it for the future job? I assume quite a few literature department have changed into foreign language department.

    I watched women’s soccer final and the result ended up the silver… Anyway it was a good game and they did well!
    Yoshida Saori won the gold medal in women’s wrestling!

    Anne



  38. YU on 2012年08月10日 at 11:24

    Hi everyone,

    It seems that there are quite many bank clerks(incl. ex-bank clerks) here… 🙂

    Hi Anne and Yukako,

    A friend of mine studied French literature and got a usual office work job at a big household appliance maker by using her father’s strong personal connections. She was bullied by her colleagues and quit her job quite early, though.

    Anyway, when I took entrance exams for universities, I avoided choosing literature departments as I had heard that the graduates were going to be disadvantageous to find a job later.
    (I guess that is why we can hardly find male students in(at!?) literature departments.)

    I know it is not a good way of choosing what you study, but I really didn’t know what I wanted to be in the future when I was in high school, so I just decided to take exams for economics department.

    > I’m wondering what is the meaning studying in college? Is it for the future job?

    I’m wondering too!
    I think it’s something like “idling time” before becoming a working member of society.
    社会人になる前のアイドリングタイムのようなもの?

    > I assume quite a few literature department have changed into foreign language department.

    You mean literature departments are gradually disappearing!? That is new to me.

    > I mean new employees’ first assignments are typically low level in Japan, so this is nothing new.

    As you say, that is nothing new, but it seems that the character of new employees is changing.

    The other day I watched a TV report saying that new employees of today are different from the ones you know. They are called “digital native” or “ゆとり(教育)世代”. Apparently, they care of themselves first of all, don’t really care about other people’s age or position in the society, and they don’t hesitate to quit jobs.

    > I watched women’s soccer final and the result ended up the silver… Anyway it was a good game and they did well!

    I watched it too.
    Actually, I even felt refreshed after the game.
    I like the American football team, especially I like ワンバック. They always play fair so it was nice for Nadeshiko that the last opponents was them.

    > Yoshida Saori won the gold medal in women’s wrestling!

    She is really strong!!
    I want her to guard my house as she does in the CM
    (ALSOK)!! 🙂



  39. Yukako on 2012年08月10日 at 14:45

    Hi Anne and YU,

    >I’m wondering what is the meaning studying in college? Is it for the future job?

    It’s a very difficult question…, but I think we study in universities for the future job. In my particular case, I chose the university and department for my dream.
    Some friends from high school often said, “The most important thing is whether or not the university is famous. If I could enter a famous university, I wouldn’t care about departments.” I didn’t understand their views of universities.



  40. kattie on 2012年08月11日 at 01:44

    Hi everyone,

    It’s interesting to learn about the Japanese system and now I understand more fully what you mean when you refer to someone as ‘a salaryman.’

    In some ways I think it’s a good idea to experience lots of different departments in a company because this broadens the employee’s experience and understanding. As David said, it’s also quite hard to know what you want to do when you first graduate, so working in a variety of jobs might bring out a previously hidden talent which would be good for both the employer and the employee. However, if people are moved too often it’s hard for them to develop a specialism so I think this can’t be maximising their potential – it must also be depressing to be moved from one job to the next without having any kind of say in the matter, is this what actually happens, or is it discussed first?

    I have a legal recruitment business and find positions for lawyers in London law firms. I’ve been doing this for about 15 years and over this time UK law firms have become increasingly interested in specialists. For the first two years after graduating, would-be solicitors find a position in a law firm as a trainee. Whilst they are a trainee they will normally work in 4 different departments and at the end of the 2 year period they will then decide which area of the law they wish to specialise in – from that point on, irrespective of the firm they work for, they will generally work in this field and develop their skills.

    In the past many law firms, especially the small and medium sized ones, often employed generalists but these days are long gone. The disadvantage with the current system is that if an area of work dries up, then people don’t have transferrable skills. In the last 2/3 years there has been a downturn in the property market so there are a lot of unemployed, highly skilled property lawyers. These people are desperate to work in other fields of law but the law firms don’t want them, it’s too expensive and time consuming to retrain them.

    Anne asked what jobs arts-based graduates do in the UK. I suppose the answer to this is that if you have a good degree result, from a good university (Both of these things are very important) and you are the sort of person who will do well at an interview and can also write well, there are plenty of options – providing that the economy is okay. The creative industries are a very important part of the UK economy and bright arts-based graduates have many of the skills that employers are looking for in areas like advertising, film, music, journalism etc. These graduates are also able to do a short coversion course after university and can even qualify into areas like law – in fact many law firms really like these graduates because they are often able to think logically and have good communication skills.

    Since Anne asked this question I’m assuming that it’s very different for these graduates in Japan, so does that mean that arts-based subjects are not well regarded in Japan and so these courses don’t attract the brightest students?

    I hope everyone has a lovely weekend – we have a little bit of sun here so we’re very happy and my Japanese girls were even able to sit out in the garden this afternoon. David – I’m sure after you’ve been here a few weeks you’ll be desperate for the sun again!



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